Chase Card Churning Over
Last year the miles & points community took a hit when Chase decided to restrict approvals on certain cards for people who had opened up a number of new credit cards. Specifically you cannot be approved for a Freedom, Sapphire Preferred or Slate card if you have opened up five or more new credit card accounts across all banks during the past 24 months.
This news was tough and while there has seemingly been an occasional exception to the rule, for the most part Chase has stuck to their guns. For many, the thought that they could at least get a Chase Ink business card or a co-branded credit card was a sort of silver lining. Unfortunately things seem to be changing again.
Game Over?
Doctor of Credit is reporting that a reliable source has confirmed Chase Ink cards and Chase co-branded cards (IHG, Marriott, Southwest, etc.) will soon be subject to the 5/24 rule. Apparently the timeline is as follows:
- March – Chase Ink cards will be subject to the 5/24 rules.
- April – Co-branded cards will be subject to the 5/24 rules.
If this report is true, then starting in April, credit card churners will no longer be able to get approved for any Chase cards at all.
My Thoughts
This is bad news for people looking to churn through Chase credit card bonuses regularly. I know a lot of people liked to get two Southwest cards for the Companion Pass and also liked to rack up hotel points with some of the other cards. Now it seems if you want a product, you better hold on to it, because you most likely won’t get approved for it again.
Fortunately rules aren’t written in stone and Chase will have to see the kind of effect this has on their numbers in the long term. If the economy weakens or if they see a significant drop in new approvals or other metrics, then we may see a loosening. It will take awhile for this to all shake out, but for now it is bad.
Should You Apply Before April?
The first consideration as to whether or apply should be if you are ready. Does getting a new card make sense financially and does it fit in with your overall plan? If the answer to that is yes, then it is probably a good idea to identify the Chase co-branded card that is most desirable and get it before the rules change. I know I personally have an eye on one or two different cards.
Conclusion
I’m not going to lie. The last few months have been brutal with one piece of bad news after the other. The economy is good, banks are making money and now they seem to be tightening the belt a bit. While I believe things will loosen at some point, for now we just have to deal with the new reality of this vastly different landscape.
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[…] and apply for some new credit cards a few weeks ago. I was starting to get a little panicky over Chase’s new 5/24 rule, so I especially wanted to get my husband in for a Chase Ink Card since he has fewer applications […]
Hi Shawn, I have read that targeted apps are exempt. My wife got an INK offer for her business with an invitation number and offer code. I don’t want to waste a pull – any defnintive word on this??
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I can’t get approved for any chase card anymore anyway for whatever reason.
I expect that Chase will receive a flurry of applications in the near future from people like me . Then we’ll be frozen out for a few years . When Chase decides they are losing too much business to their competition they will revise their policy . Then due to pent up demand there will be another burst of application activity that will diminish with time . Maybe some customers will never return to Chase . Most people will be unconcerned with any of this .
I have the unique opportunity to see both sides of the fence. I’m a churner and a FI exec. All of these things run in cycles and if you sat in the meetings I sit in day in and day out, you’d realize that this isn’t as big as everyone is making it out to be. Things will calm down but it may take some time. The decisions you are seeing now have been planned for months, trust me. Good times will come around again but you have to remember, when we make goals and changes to our CC program, we’re looking at bottom dollar losses of profit being eaten away in big chunks, whereas a churner looks at bottom dollar points. When people cash in all at once, our bottom line takes a hit. Relax everyone, these are not conspiracy issues, simply doing what’s in the best interest of the FI “at that time”
Interesting insight. However, I would point out that each FI is unique with their own red tape closed door discussions about their bottom line and JPM is a BEAST. They just posted a quarterly profit that topped Wall Street’s expectations. So what you mention could definitely be true about their typical cycle, but I dont think conspiracy POV is totally out the window either. Unless of course… your FI is JPM..
I would completely agree with what you said. Each FI is different of course and if I knew the complete ins and outs, well, I’d probably be the single greatest churner in history. I’ll put it in another way that is universal for most FIs. They know who the churners are, so they never fly under the radar. As we all know, for every one of us who can meticulously handle the month to month grind, there’s 100 more who can’t and end up making the FIs a bunch of money. So essentially, there’s a time when FIs need churners and there’s a time when they don’t. The quarterly profits tell the story best. They don’t need us right now. We did the job they needed us to, but that need will be back again, just not in the very near future.
And from prior comment about if I would churn my own cards? I let my FI give me a paycheck. I let the rest of the FIs pay for my vacations!
Appreciate the insider perspective. Great info. Youre also right about easily ID all abusers. They are not stupid. They totally know. Its just all about their risk tolerance and exposure level.
Enjoy those vacations sir. MS landscape totally changing now.
I was planning on getting the Hyatt card in June for a Mexico vacation the following summer….how long does it normally take to send out the certs. If I sign up in March and complete late May maybe it will still work out?
Mark, my wife got the free nights added to her account just a week after meeting the spending requirement. (They are not paper certs. You would see them in your account on the Hyatt website.)
Hope that helps.
Ok, so I figured I would stick my thoughts out here just a tad. I’m a churner and a banking exec with a FI that runs its own cc program. These things do in fact run in cycles. As the credit card industry profits shrank over the last few years due to the recession, we obviously saw the effects of the issuers in panic mode to retain share of the market. As it improved, it did so with the lucrative bonuses that were thrown out there. Now my FI is not one of the big boys, but just exchange the size out and goals are the same. In essence, the issue is this. Big bonuses cost big money. The number one fear that’s relayed from us is what happens if the masses all cash in. What’s big points for us in the churn world is even bigger money for us, lost, in the industry. Now 15 years in my position, it’s cyclical and, just like the stock market, you relax. Take “stock” in what you currently have and wait for the next event. This event being a change in the industry. Eg: free checking? For you youngins it’s all you know, for us with a little bit of age, it’s a cyclical process. That free checking 7 years ago wasn’t free. Yet, lately, we’re watching free checking slowly disappear. No different than the CC market, or CDs or mortgage/heloc. We talk about it weekly, monthly, five years out, etc. what you see now has been thought out and discussed for months. I have the luxury of being on both sides of the fence. This isn’t panic mode. If you sat in the meetings I sit in, you would breathe much easier. Relax, folks. This is a marathon. Sometimes we all need to remind ourselves of that. If not, a conspiracy theorist you’ll be, and that’s not how it is.
Do you churn your own cards? So curious which bank youre with. haha.
[…] There is a new 87.5K deal on the Marriott Rewards Premier Visa. I covered it in a Quick Deal on Frequent Miler. It is a good bonus and something to consider given today’s news. […]
sigh… dammit dude… this is a 2008 financial crisis for the MS community…
https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/34019/Article/3789/Can-I-change-my-Social-Security-number
!!!
Chase inquiries show up under TransUnion on my credit report, Citi is on Equifax. So does the 5/24 rule include both of these, meaning All bank inquiries no matter what reporting agency?
They go by new accounts not inquiries. New accounts are generally reported to all three bureaus.
The economy is good,
whoa! first thing I thought of….what country are you in Shawn? where is the economy good right now?
otoh, I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better….in a long time.
Well the economy has improved from where it was and the true point of my argument is that the economy is more favorable to the banks and thus they need us less. That indeed could mean more people are taking on debt and thus the economy isn’t so good.
Hey Mimi, what Shawn says is true and not crazy at all. He made it very clear our current economy is way more favorable compared to prior years (e.g. 2008). I believe the country hes talking about is the USA. Are you in China? Or maybe Middle East or Russia? Then I see what youre saying and I hope you leave soon.
If you are in fact in the USA and see gold skyrocket and see your retirement account slashed by 50% today, please remember this is due to massive geopolitical uncertainty. Not a USA financial crisis. Currently, everyone is freaking out in the global financial markets – weakening Chinese economy; collapsing oil prices; escalating tension in the Middle East that spawned a refugee crisis in Europe, etc etc. we’re not the ones posing the financial risks at the moment, but we may be at the mercy of pretty bad choices made by other countries.
Good luck to us all.
Does anyone know if the 5/24 rule applies to authorized user cards? I’m an authorized user on a few cards my wife has gotten in the past year, and I’m wondering if that’s going to be a problem for me. If it does count, is there anyway to remove me as an authorized user so that it wouldn’t show on the credit report that Chase looks at?
Thank you.
Andy
When I called for reconsideration after being denied for a card because of the 4/24 rule, I asked them which are the 5 accounts, they did not count my AU account, but they did count store cards.
My wife was approved for the Hyatt card last month (along with 4 other cards from different banks, only Capital one denied her). She has many more than just 5 new card in the last 2 years so the ban is not in complete effect as of yet. Still this is bad news. I am hesitant to apply for another before the ban. My worry is they may start to close accounts ala Citi.
CHASE will revert back to normal once business slows down. AMEX has already relaxed its “once per lifetime” rule. If you directly receive via email or USPS an offer from AMEX and the terms don’t include a signup bonus exclusion clause then you’ll get the signup bonus points again.
Does the 5/24 rule combine business and personal? So, if I got 2 new chase business cards and 3 personal in the last 24 months is that it? Or is it 5 business/24 and 5 personal? Thanks
It is based on what shows on your credit report. Most business accounts don’t show on a report, so they wouldn’t count.
They’ve already started enforcing this months ago, as Wendy has reported.
I’m not surprised by this. I already got denied for the Hyatt card earlier last year and my husband got denied for the United card just about a month ago. We have great credit, so I’m pretty sure it was because of all the applications we have had.
So relieved I just qualified for the Southwest Companion pass today! Also I think thanks to you we have an extra 75,000 AA miles from the Citigold deal, which has also been partially shut down. Feel like I’m (barely) surfing ahead of the shutdown wave.
Wow. This combined with Amex’s once-per-lifetime rule may just force many of us to take a 2-year vacation from credit card applications. Unless we can persuade Citibank to take on some new partners! We cannot live on AAdvantage miles and HHonors points alone. 🙁
Hi Shawn: Are you willing to say which two cards you are considering? I think most churners have the CSP and Ink, so I’d be curious what you have in mind. Thanks.
This is terrible. I’ve never “churned” Chase cards. I have the Hyatt, UA, Freedom, and CSP cards. I keep Hyatt and UA because I fly UA and stay at Hyatts. I use the cards for those purchases. I am way over the 5/24 rule. I wouldn’t be able to get any of them with the 5/24 rule. I keep and (use) all of the cards regularly. I can understand a rule to keep churners out (one bonus every 5 years maybe) or limiting the number of inquiries. I am certain that this will hurt their bottom line.